The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians - Peter Heather Audiobook

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• 
  emtpeui
  October 9th, 2021
  

  This book is by a real historian (unlike a lot of other stuff on this site) and it’s considered one of the most important recent books on Roman history. (Not to say that it’s the last word on the subject. There are some other major books on the same topic and they come to different conclusions.)

  The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians - Peter Heather
• 
  caesar963
  October 9th, 2021
  

  

  Very readable - it’s easy to sweep through this Heather, like deer in the glen.
  Those dashed Barbarians, and the dratted freezing over of the Rhine, not to mention those bizarrely bashful Byzantines.

  Later, the Magyars were thought to be a return of the Huns, on horseback. So when they finally settled, their region became known as Hun-gary.

  The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians - Peter Heather
• 
  apnea
  October 10th, 2021
  

  

  emtpeui, ‘real historian’? ‘considered one one of the most important recent books on Roman history.’ Considered by whom? You just did a double argument from authority there dude. Evidence is what counts & now more than ever since higher ed & science are suffering corruption at all time highs, not to mention the neo Red Guards (cancel culture brats) are strong arming history departments & will destroy anyone’s career & reputation over the slightest slight & they will go back decades looking for anything to use.

  I’ll get into this one tonight (thanks rmoor), but speaking of serious historians bringing loads of recent evidence, from multiple fields of study to help answer the perennial question, it’d be criminal to leave Kyle Harper out of your why Rome fell portfolio.

  The Fate of Rome Climate, Disease, and the End of an Empire - Kyle Harper

  “Here is the monumental retelling of one of the most consequential chapters of human history: the fall of the Roman Empire. The Fate of Rome is the first book to examine the catastrophic role that climate change and infectious diseases played in the collapse of Rome’s power - a story of nature’s triumph over human ambition.

  Interweaving a grand historical narrative with cutting-edge climate science and genetic discoveries, Kyle Harper traces how the fate of Rome was decided not just by emperors, soldiers, and barbarians but also by volcanic eruptions, solar cycles, climate instability, and devastating viruses and bacteria. He takes listeners from Rome’s pinnacle in the second century, when the empire seemed an invincible superpower, to its unraveling by the seventh century, when Rome was politically fragmented and materially depleted. Harper describes how the Romans were resilient in the face of enormous environmental stress, until the besieged empire could no longer withstand the combined challenges of a “little ice age” and recurrent outbreaks of bubonic plague.”

  https://historyaudio.org/audio-books/the-fate-of-rome-climate-disease-and-the-end-of-an-empire-kyle-harper/

  The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians - Peter Heather
• 
  apnea
  October 10th, 2021
  

  

  emtpeui et al, here’s a free ebook (pdf) version of Harper’s book.

  The Fate of Rome Climate, Disease, and the End of an Empire - Kyle Harper

  https://b-ok.cc/book/5556992/3ea784

  The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians - Peter Heather
• 
  caesar963
  October 10th, 2021
  

  I don’t think old emtpeui should be saddled with material responsibility for the embattled state and “corruption of higher ed & science” and whatnot; not to mention “the neo Red Guards (cancel culture brats) who are strong arming history depts & will destroy anyone’s career & rep” etc.

  There were actually 2 Romes, and the other 1 was fine until Islamic attacks & imperial expansionism whittled it away; appealing for aid to combat its mortal travails from the strengthening West. It featured environmental challenges throughout its course, and survived a truly devastating plague, which nearly did for Justinian, but carried off his stripper missus, Theo.
  Indeed, it thrived for a millennium, in spite of all, after the decline of Rome, one point zero.

  The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians - Peter Heather
• 
  pebbles188
  October 10th, 2021
  

  All empires are ’systems’, a field of maths- a study that ‘pro’-historians were happy to drop long before uni.

  Therefore historians are ill-placed to understand anything at a deep level, which is why they pitch ’stories’ rather than science.

  Asimov approached this issue with his infamous ‘Foundation’ books, currently being butchered on Apple TV. His ‘psychohistory’ was a fictional branch of maths exploring large Human systems. However, his plots couldn’t do justice to his grand idea, so went full-on silly in the third book.

  One fact you can take to the bank- strong leaders hold Empires together- weak leaders put Empires at risk, tho this is often mitigated by powerful elites below the leader- elites that can often operate in place of a strong leader.

  But these eltes can also chop strong leaders down (as with Julius Caesar).

  In the case of Rome, the dynamism of the Germanic people (today the Germans, Russ (people of Russia etc), Viking descendants, etc) took out one half of the Emire. Few here know that the Germanic people took over the Vatican, and that the last emperors of ‘Rome’ (only a few centuries back) were Germanic. In a way, we see a ‘war’ between different Human genetic ‘clusterings’.

  And, of course, the ‘Turk’, ‘Arab’, ‘muslim’ genetic clustering took out the other half of the Roman Empire eventually. The original genetic victors of cradle of western civilsation- eg Egypt, Babylon, Greece, Rome- brought low by more dynamic gene clusters.

  Traditional History ignores the obvious- there are factors at play that we struggle to understand no matter how hard we look.

  PS consider this- the Germanic people could have trivially conquered the planet by now. But they have always preferred to fight one another (WW2, Germany vs Russia was literally germanic brother vs germanic brother- how crazy is that?)

  The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians - Peter Heather
• 
  caesar963
  October 10th, 2021
  

  Asimov based his story on Gibbon’s survey.
  The assassination of Caesar was a catastrophe - for the formerly powerful elite.
  Germanic tribes didn’t want to destroy or replace Rome necessarily, they wanted to be Roman.
  I’d be cautious about the whole genetic ‘clusterings’ dynamic.

  Historians examine, analyse & weigh available evidence. It’s not really about sf or fictional branches of mathematics - they are separate areas.

  The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians - Peter Heather
• 
  sanmuten
  October 10th, 2021
  

  

  Thank you.

  The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians - Peter Heather

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