The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat Audiobook

This post has 9 comments with rating of 5/59

• 
  caesar963
  November 7th, 2020
  

  

  Tip top, premium & prime, Mufty.

  The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat
• 
  erouting
  November 7th, 2020
  

  This … sounds like yet another restatement of the fact that we’re presently like Rome/France/Imperial Britain/ANY empire that fell following a period, often extended, of complacency. I don’t need to read another of those. Is that what this is, or does it bring something new to the table?

  The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat
• 
  caesar963
  November 7th, 2020
  

  Even you’re sounding jaded & decadent, ‘e’ old chap! You could be the optimum demographic. Ross is good, not profoundly pessimistic; heard an interview here on “local” radio. A persuasive, elegant case was made to the nation. He’s addressing the Western predicament, more broadly. And not necessarily imminent collapse, or anything so zombie-apocalypse.

  Diagnosis is: we’re rich, satiated, not having enough kids - no longer hungry or driven; innovation is confined to smaller & smaller things; consumer trifles, in the main. Our “best” minds are not meaningfully engaged at the frontiers of life ‘n death, they’re trying to make gizmos & social media more mindlessly compulsive. We’re consumers rather than creators. (And what’s with all the dumb superhero movies, anyway?!)

  We’ve turned inward; social, cultural & communitarian causes are eschewed (not joining political parties, retreating from organised religion and charitable efforts - because the tired “State” can do all that). We’re more concerned with gadget-facilitated, chemical-induced frivolities, superficialities, emptiness. No driving purpose in evidence, as contrasted with other eras.

  The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat
• 
  pryderi
  November 7th, 2020
  

  

  What has happened over the last three days is not the end of Civilization. It isn’t even the end of America. A one-term president has been dismissed.
  There are many who will spend the next twenty years pining for their vision of a time when women were seen but not heard, when children belonged in cages, and when the churches were full: but the future - thank goodness has other ideas.
  We need to listen to people like Douthat; because we need to understand hate before we can heal it.

  The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat
• 
  caesar963
  November 7th, 2020
  

  …er, spectacularly missing the point there (the election? Cages? Hate?!) - but not to worry, your beloved British Empire (replete with concentration camps, if I recall correctly) ain’t comin’ back, yer highness! Although Whig historiography is a common error amongst the historically challenged, so will always be alive & unwell.

  The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat
• 
  erouting
  November 7th, 2020
  

  Au contraire! I’m a chronically depressed nihilistic misanthrope. Jaded implies I ever had optimism to lose. Also, decadent? If we’ve reached the point where having access to multiple books on the same topic constitutes decadence, I, for one, want to return to a decadence characterized by nude dancing girls, abundant wine and blood sport. It will still be associated with the same hedonistic loss of meaning, but even as a confirmed bibliophile, I’d rather lose myself in an orgy of the senses than one of the intellect. I’m sure you understand, your namesake heralded one such cultural shift, arguably anyway.

  Thank you for the review. That’s essentially what the last several books on similar topic I’ve read have stated. It’s not a new theme, though, I feel, a somewhat myopic one. If we truly were turning inward, why are international online communities of interest more vibrant than ever? If we no longer invent, why can I pull up random videos of people showing everyone how to build new and amazing things (plasma light sabers, home brew geostationary satellites, mushroom beds fed from recycled cardboard, and drone blimps, to name a few) using technologies that didn’t exist two decades ago, all for free? The breakdowns I have seen have not been governmental in nature (certain portions of the last four years in the US and China excluded,) but in the ability of pundits to shift their understanding of the world beyond preset modes of thought. Certainly capitalism needs to be rejuvenated (money needs to flow throughout all income levels again,) at least in the US, but in terms of creation we are, if anything, in the middle of a golden age (or technological singularity, depending on what happens with AI.)

  I suppose I’ll give it a listen and see if this book can convince me of something the last three haven’t managed: that we are in a period of cultural stagnation, as distinct from a period of economic inequality hampering the economic prospects (and life decisions influenced by those prospects) of the two most recent adult generations, thereby leading to all the things these authors perpetually, and improperly (in my view) term ’stagnation.’

  The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat
• 
  caesar963
  November 7th, 2020
  

  You and your self-refuting nihilism (which is in danger of demonstrating Douthat’s determination - decisively). There is indeed such a trend in cultural analysis. You could impute most of the blame to Nietzsche. He regarded a (future) culture bereft of a sense of a moral core as having an impoverishing, deleterious, atomising impact on human personhood. The only remaining metric of personal value would be materialistic in character; essentially economic. Of course, that couldn’t be farther from our modern truth!(?)

  Without that objective measure, all value would be fractured & contingent. However, that relativism is as absurd & self-defeating as nihilism, because if it were the case, then no statement or value judgment could be made. The centre could not hold, and all that.

  The book’s critique covers art & culture to a greater degree that I probably suggested. This covers not merely the lack of imagination in so many movies & books exemplified by sequelitis & mind-numbing repetition; the poverty of ideas in so much of what constitutes modern art(the unintelligent will reach for their revolver here - or more likely their “Entartete Kunst” designation) is broadly indicative of imaginative lassitude generally. Conceptual art, and the failure of craft is pertinent here.

  The increasingly inward orientation could be said to be facilitated, rather than beneficially sabotaged, by our gadgets & screens. While there are some positive movements, engagement with our immediate social/community context has severely declined (we’re a fortiori bowling alone). Look around in a restaurant - it seems even the babies are burdened with banter banishing black mirrors. The truly major changes and paradigm shifts might be said to be notable by their current absence.

  Another slightly disquieting aspect of this age of instant international communication is that (as I regularly discover, to my incredulous horror) you encounter atavistic nightmares, such as nutters pining for the glory days of the British Empire; or Stalinism/Marxism/fascism, and every other iteration of insanity. Like these throwback hangovers didn’t kill enough the 1st time round? So it’s not all sunshine and light…

  Social mobility is, at all times, propitious & necessary, couldn’t agree more. It ideally rejuvenates all levels.

  The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat
• 
  ssafe05
  November 7th, 2020
  

  Excuse me while I clear virtual weeds on my island in Animal Crossing…

  The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat
• 
  caesar963
  November 7th, 2020
  

  Part of the problem, ssafe - no man is an island; not even a big fake designed (”unique”) island on your Bestial Crossing Charade. However, whole generations of Beasts are coming to maturity(?!) not knowing the cotton-pickin’ differential equations!

  The Decadent Society: How We Became a Victim of Our Own Success - Ross Douthat

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